Fi
It made a huge difference when my directory profile started sounding like me. Because I think the very first one I did sounded like somebody else’s idea of what a counsellor should be. And I, you know, when I first qualified, it was just post COVID and we’d all grown our hair out because we can’t really get a decent haircut. And I think I looked like somebody else’s idea of what a counsellor should look like. I had a very sensible grey bob and I was dressing very conservatively for work.
And now I’ve given up and I do turn up and be congruent. I’ve got pink in my hair. I wear my jeans and my DMs and my directory sounds a lot more like me.
Josephine
Today I’m welcoming Fi. Many of you will know Fi Hewkin from our Good Enough Counsellors group, she’s a really helpful person who often contributes there.
Fi’s also been a member of my Therapy Growth Group and I’ve invited Fi along today to share how she’s made her private practice work, and I don’t know how much of her backstory Fi would like to share, but I think Fi’s, sort of, like many of us, not come from the easiest of starts and Fi’s really managed to make her private practice work and I just think that’s a really encouraging thing for anybody who might be thinking ‘I can’t do it!’
So Fi, tell me tell me what you thought about setting up in private practice when you were about to embark on it.
Fi
Well, I didn’t think that I could, but all the way through this counselling journey, I didn’t think I could. I left school with 3 O levels and one of those was Art and it was utterly useless. And I’d grown up being told that I wasn’t clever, I wasn’t academic. I grew up in a council estate.
You get a job in the shop around the corner, and you get a flat next to your mum. You don’t go and become a professional. So going to uni, I thought I would only do I was just gonna do the diploma because I couldn’t possibly get a degree, and then I went on to get a degree, and then I thought, well, I’ll have to go and work for somebody because I won’t be able to run my own business even though I had run my own IT business before that. And then I thought, actually, no. I can’t go and work for somebody because nobody will employ me, so I’ll have to go and start up in private practice.
It’s just this long litany of I can’t, but managing to do it anyway.
Josephine
I’m just, I’m gonna pause just there and interrupt and say, you know, you went from, I’ll do a diploma because I can’t do a degree, to I do a degree.
Fi
Yeah.
Josephine
And let’s just remind people what you’ve got in your degree.
Fi
I got a 1st.
Yeah. I did actually get a 1st.
Josephine
Congratulations. I just want to sort of, you know, that to be on record. And you wouldn’t you probably wouldn’t say it unless I’d asked you, but I’m gonna claim your bragging rights here.
Fi
Thank you. When it came up on the screen, there’s a little mark that said a 1, and I thought it was a bit of chocolate chip cookie. I cleaned my computer screen because I thought I couldn’t possibly have been well.
Josephine
Fantastic. Congratulations.
Fi
Thank you.
Josephine
So, I mean, it was quite difficult for you, sort of early on in your life, as you say. You didn’t get much encouragement.
Fi
No.
Josephine
So what brought you to the counselling profession?
Fi
A friend of mine was doing his training, and we’ve been friends for a long time, and we’ve been through quite a bit together. And, honestly, I looked at him and I thought, dear god, if he can do it, maybe I can.
Josephine
Is he gonna be listening into the podcast?
Fi
Yeah. He is. And he’s gonna shoot me something. And I sat down with him one night, he and his wife had come around for dinner, and I said, yeah. It sounds so fascinating. It sounds so interesting what you’re doing.
Do you think it’s something I could do? And he said, yeah, you absolutely could. And I was in therapy myself at the time so I went and spoke to my therapist and went, you know, do you think I could do this job? Do you think I could do it? And she said, if you work on your own stuff enough because there was quite a bit of it.
My family were very dysfunctional and there was lots of abuse. She said, if you work enough on that stuff enough, you will make an excellent therapist. And she was my turning point.
If she had said, oh, no. No. I don’t think so, I would never have done it. And that is the example of counsellors making huge I don’t even know if she knew at the time what a huge difference. Just that moment.
Josephine
What an impact. Because it’s about recognising it was an ongoing work.
Fi
It was an ongoing experience.
Josephine
So do you think that the experiences that you had growing up and the sort of things that happened to you, do you think that’s had an influence on how you are as a therapist?
Fi
Oh, absolutely. I’ve been around the block a few times.
As I said, my childhood was dysfunctional. My first marriage was full of domestic violence and drug abuse. And then I was a single mum for a long time with 2 small boys. I guess I don’t shock very easily.
I think I bring an authenticity to my work. I also swear far too much while I’m working, but I have put that on my website as a disclaimer, isn’t it?
Josephine
That’s really good. And do you find people respond to you when you do swear?
Fi
They’re fine.They’re absolutely fine. Either they feel that they’re comfortable and then they can swear, or I have a lovely client who said, I don’t swear but I love it when you do. It makes me feel better. I was like, I will swear for you then. I think there’s something about that, isn’t there?
Josephine
I mean, I used to find swearing actually quite a useful thing because, and I think you’re the same, you know, we come from sort of, you know, the sort of Guildford area. We speak quite nicely because that’s part of
Fi
I can do. I can sound quite posh.
Josephine
That’s it. And I think sometimes that means that people think they can’t. We might be shocked or, you know, we might be, you know, it might be, oh, no no. I wouldn’t swear. Sometimes I think, especially with me, you know, living in Essex, it actually was a real bridge builder in a sense. If I was prepared to swear, because people think, oh, that’s alright.
She’s normal. Despite the bit of the posh accent.
Fi
And I work with a lot of people who’ve been through significant trauma. And sometimes the only reaction is, well, that really was shit. That was awful because it is, and no other words are gonna do that.
And it acknowledges just how horrific some things are. You know, saying something is a little tricky really doesn’t quite cut it.
Josephine
Yeah. It’s just acknowledging that depth. And also, I think there’s something around, you know, when you use swear words, it also can get across the anger as well, can’t it? And I think often people feel that they maybe can’t express anger, or it’s difficult to express anger about it, and I think it’s very releasing for people to know that you actually get it and that you feel the sort of this it’s at a visceral level, really, that it makes you want to swear.
Fi
Yes. And I think some of my clients need permission to be angry. They need to be told, actually, yeah, what happened to you is awful and you are allowed to be angry. Especially with women, we’re socialised to not show anger, to not shout, to keep things inside, to be nice. And when we’re talking about abuse and violence, it’s not okay. You don’t have to be nice.
Josephine
It’s not a nice thing that happened, is it?
Fi
No.
Josephine
And I do you think there’s something as well about there’s a regaining of your power as well in this, isn’t there? You know, when you’re able to express really what you feel then that helps you to regain some of your power in that situation, a sense of control.
Fi
Yes it does, it really does empower. I’ve seen it empower people and I encourage my clients if they want to to throw cushions or storm up and down the council room and they go home absolutely exhausted and come back the following week and go, gee, I felt so much better for her. I feel stronger.
Josephine
Yeah. Because it can be a very exhausting process as well, can’t it?
Fi
Yeah.
Josephine
I know when I’ve had a particularly difficult counselling session, as in I’m the client, that you come away, you feel completely wiped out by it, don’t you? So yeah.
Fi
Yeah. I used to come home and have a nap. I was working through some things about, child sexual abuse which came up at the end of my training, and I would just come back come out absolutely wiped out and need to lie go lie down.
Josephine
Yeah. Because it’s just so powerful and so strong having to process all that stuff.
Fi
It turned my world upside down and I will be forever grateful for having a therapist who could hold a safe space for them.
Josephine
So tell me about the work. So do you work mainly with people who’ve experienced abuse or trauma?
Fi
I work mainly with people. I fell into a niche.
We talk a lot, don’t we, about what’s your niche? And I fell into mine because I was having clients even when I was training, they would sit there and say, well, there’s something I’ve never told anyone else. And as a trainee counsellor, that makes your blood run cold.
Josephine
The irony of what’s coming?
Fi
Oh, but here we go.
And my biggest fear was that I wouldn’t be. I needed to be as good a counsellor for them as my therapist had been for me, and my biggest fear was I might mess it up or re-traumatize them. And this happened quite quite often with clients saying there’s something I haven’t told anybody. This happened to me when I was a child.
So at that point, I went off and did some extra training with the very brilliant doctor Mark Widdowson and through the link centre. And it is awesome. If anyone wants to do trauma training, that is the one to go to. It is so good, and he gave me a lot of skills to be able to help people, to help them process trauma memories and that in a nutshell is how I ended up becoming a trauma therapist because I still have so much to learn. But it was mainly because I didn’t wanna make people feel anything.
Josephine
So tell me how you get clients then for your private practice if you’re working in that field.
Fi
I was thinking about that when you asked me to do this, and I think what I did in the first place is I did all the things. I think it’s really important to, you know, get on the directories obviously. It doesn’t have to be perfect. It just has to have your name on there. Nobody is gonna find you if your stuff isn’t out there.
Josephine
That’s number one step, isn’t it?
Fi
So get on the directory and then have a website.
And I did all the things that we talked about when I had a session and I had a session with you, and it was like, tell all your friends, which is really uncomfortable. I found that dreadful. I was on all the directories. I built the website.
I did a lot of stuff on Facebook because I know how to do Facebook.
Josephine
Just remind people what your Facebook title is.
Fi
It’s Fiona Hewkin Counsellor, and I just kept it really nice and simple and thought, you know, I could spend weeks trying to think up of a clever name.
Josephine
But just keep it simple.
Fi
But I thought to keep it simple and also we talk about congruence, don’t we, and turning up and being our authentic self. Well, my authentic self is I am Fiona Hewkin. The only difference is the move I made away from congruence is I prefer Fi, but on all of my literature and everything on the website, I put Fiona because it sounded more granular.
Josephine
That’s maybe a bit of the old imposter syndrome coming in there.
Fi
It was. Absolutely. It’s like, oh, no. Like, oh, no. I’ve got to sound grown up. So I think I’ve changed it now.
I think yeah. I have. My about me page now says I am Fi, but for the 1st year, it said my name is Fiona.
Josephine
And do clients know you now as Fi? Do they call you Fi?
Fi
Yeah.
Josephine
They’ve got a connection.
Fi
Because I always joke and say when anyone calls me Fiona, I look over my shoulder because.
Josephine
I love that. I used to be like that with Josephine, but I’ve got used to it now.
So tell me a bit about setting up. Was it difficult to get started as in, you know, did you because I think it because you had you used to have a business, didn’t you? You said you had a business. It was IT.
Fi
I used to teach IT. I say I used to teach IT. I used to teach people how to use Microsoft Office.
So a lot of my time was spent teaching little old ladies how to send emails. It was a great job. I loved it. It was. That’s what I was kind of doing when I decided to become a counsellor because it was empowering people that I really loved about it.
Josephine
Yeah. Helping people actually use that sort of stuff.
Fi
So setting up in business, I had an idea.
What I got was your checklist of all the things that you need to do to set up to be a counsellor, and I just sat there with the checklist and went through all of it. So thank you for that. It was really helpful.
Josephine
And I think it is in the show notes for who wants to download it. So, yeah, go on.
Fi
So I worked through it literally step by step. You know, I hadn’t heard of the ICO, but, you know, I found it on the list. So I went and found them and I registered with them. And I just literally went through it step by step. Because if I thought about the whole big picture, I would probably have panicked and still not have a practice.
Josephine
Yeah. So just take it step by step. How long did it. Can you remember how long it took you to do that? You know, how long did you get everything set up before you started or did you just start and then.
Fi
What happened for me is I was working with my local community centre and we set up a charity to offer affordable counselling in the community because a lot of people can’t afford mental health care. So I was already doing that, so I was seeing clients that way. And then I did I think I took about after I qualified, which was in the July. I think I saw my first private client in about the September/October time.
Josephine
Yeah.
Fi
So it took me about 3 months. Because, you know, it took me that long to work out how to build a website and host it. Because although I taught people how to use Word, I had no idea about hosting a website.
Josephine
So I was going to ask you about that if you how you actually set it up. Did you use a particular service? Or?
Fi
I used Wix because it’s easy. Wix isn’t great for a search engine optimization. It’s not great for getting you on the first page of Google. There used to be a joke in IT circles is how do you hide a website? Put it on Wix.
Josephine
Oh, really?
Fi
Yeah. But it is easy to use as are ones like GoDaddy and, you know, they’re just click and drag. If you can follow a recipe, you can build a website.
Josephine
Brilliant. I love that. I might quote you on that.
Fi
It’s not odd. If I can do it, it’s not odd. I got caught up with, oh, I need to do all the SEO and the optimization for it. Actually, I’ve discovered you don’t. You really don’t. Because what you need is a link.
Most of the things that come up, when you search counsellor in my area into Google, you will get one of the big directories. counsellor directory, psychology today, possibly the BACP. People then find you and use that to go to your website. That’s 3 months of my life trying to understand SEO. I lost a good 3 months of my life trying to understand SEO that I will never get back.
Josephine
I remember you telling me about it. I was very impressed with you doing it.
Fi
Yeah. I don’t think it made any difference though, Jo.
Josephine
Oh, right. To be fair. But you are blogging though, aren’t you?
Fi
That’s right.
Josephine
How’s that gone for you? You know, is it difficult to get started on blogging?
Fi
I love it. And it wasn’t hard to get started because I have a lot of ideas, a lot of passion, and I like writing.
So I think with any kind of marketing that you do, do the bits you like to do. Now if you don’t like writing, don’t try and do a blog. Go and do pictures on Instagram. Yeah.
Josephine
Or a podcast.
Fi
Or a podcast. Yes. I like writing, so I write blogs.
Josephine
That’s it. And do you find that people will refer to your blogs, you know, when they phone you up or get in contact with you.
Fi
Yeah. I’ve had quite a few people say, I read your article, and it really struck a chord with me. And I’m then sitting there thinking, I wonder which one they read. Because I’ve written quite a lot.
So it’s like, oh, I’m really glad you liked it. What bit in particular did you like? I hope that they might give me a clue.
Josephine
Yeah. Because that might give you a clue as to actually what’s what’s going on in their life as well.
Fi
So for me, it was about doing all of the things. And working on the marketing was the case of if I chuck enough much, some of it will stick.
Josephine
Yeah. And you found that’s worked. And you got in contact with me, didn’t you? Because you wanted to improve your directory, I think.
Fi
That was it. The first one I did with you was the How to write your directory. Yeah. The make. Because I really, like most people, struggled with it.
I found it very helpful. I didn’t have the trauma thing happening at that point. It was just starting, I think. So you talked about writing for your ideal client because when I first started, like most people, I would have taken anybody who had enough money to pay me.
Josephine
Absolutely. And we still do. Yeah?
Fi
Yeah. I’ve still got to put food on the table, but this was about writing for your ideal client. What did your client need? What does your client want to hear? And one of the things that was very useful as well, apart from that with you, was I had an uni friend of mine, and we swapped our directory drafts Yeah. And went through it to find I’m not even sure I can use the words that we used on your podcast, but to find the counsely terms.
Josephine
Yeah. The psychobabble, I call it.
Fi
Well, we called it something else.It was quite rude
Josephine
It begins with c and ends with p, probably.
Fi
Yeah. So just find the stuff that just sounded a bit up its own backside and asking ourselves, how many people actually use the word congruent in real life?
Josephine
People don’t, do they?
Fi
No. We’re using it in counselling all the time. Yeah. So she was there going, why on earth have you put I am congruent? No one’s gonna know what you’re talking about.
Josephine
Yeah. So it’s quite helpful to have that second pair of eyes on it.
Fi
Yeah. We went through looking for those counselling terms that we’ve spent the last 5 years learning and stripping them out. So if Ellen is listening to this, thank you for that, love. I do appreciate it.
Josephine
And what difference did it make to your practice once you’d got that directory written and sorted out?
Fi
It made a huge difference when my directory profile started sounding like me. Because I think the very first one I did sounded like somebody else’s idea of what a counsellor should be.
Josephine
That’s really interesting.
Fi
When I first qualified, we were just post-COVID, and we’d all grown our hair out because we hadn’t a decent haircut. And I think I looked like somebody else’s idea of what a counsellor should look like. I had a very sensible grey bob and I was dressing very conservatively for work. And my directory entry sounded like that person.
And now I’ve given up and I do turn up and be congruent and I’ve got pink in my hair. I wear my jeans in my DMs and my directory sounds a lot more like me.
Josephine
You’ve just got that freedom and confidence to be yourself.
Fi
I think it takes a little bit of time to build that confidence.
Josephine
It does take confidence, doesn’t it? I think we’re very scared at the start, aren’t we, of doing something wrong.
Fi
Oh it was terrifying.
Josephine
Well, I think so much depends on it, doesn’t it? Because, you know, we put everything into, I’m gonna start up in private practice, and then we sit there waiting for people. And it’s a really horrid, scary time, isn’t it?
Fi
It is very scary, and I remember thinking nobody will ever come and if a client left that would be it, I’d never work again. But I do remember I do remember getting my first client booked in and doing a happy Snoopy dance around my living room.
Josephine
Fantastic. And how did it feel to get paid by your client?
Fi
Oh, that was so weird. It was so weird. On one hand, it felt great to get paid because I’ve trained for years to do this. And on the other hand it felt dreadful taking money off them.
Josephine
Yeah. Really interesting.
Fi
There’s that feeling that we shouldn’t get paid for doing good things. So, yeah, and I think I pitched my fees too low.
Josephine
Right. Go on.
Fi
I started it for £50. After a year, it went to 55. I’ve only recently gone to 60, and, actually, my supervisor keeps telling me that I’m not charging enough. I am in a privileged position, and I recognize that privilege that my husband is still working and we don’t have a mortgage. So I’m earning enough but probably not charging my value.
Josephine
And is there a part of you as well that, you know, coming from that sort of maybe working class background that finds almost like the amount you’re charging seems like, wow.
Fi
Yeah. Absolutely. While I was doing my training, I was working in my friend’s clothes shop. Yeah. And I loved working before her. She was great fun, and she was very accommodating but I was earning, you know, £10 an hour. And all of a sudden I’m charging how much but I’m utilising very different skills.
Josephine
That’s it. And also, you probably, that £50, £60 an hour has to cover a lot of stuff.
Fi
Absolutely. Yeah. It does. And that’s why, working having 16 to 20 clients, I think at one point, the BACP said was full time. And it is.
Josephine
What’s comfortable for you in terms of your clients?
Fi
I would say between 18/20.
Josephine
Right. Yeah.
Fi
If I go to 20 especially given the the type of clients I tend to see, which tend to be quite complex. If I go to 23, my right eye starts to twitch.
Josephine
Oh, really? You know, you’ve taken on too many clients when your eye starts twitching.
Fi
Yeah. That’s the one. Like, okay, I have to cut this down.
Josephine
So how do you work out seeing, say, you know, somewhere between 16 to 20 clients a week?
How does that work out? Or is it that some of them are more fortnightly or monthly?
Fi
Okay. I work 4 days a week. I work Monday to Thursday. I have Fridays off, and that is absolutely ring fenced. I don’t see clients on Friday. So I rent rooms, some at the community centre down the road. I don’t know why I’m pointing. You don’t know where I’m going.
So somewhere, I work in the community centre down the road and I rent a room there. I also rent a room at a lovely place, The Eves in Haslemere.
Josephine
Oh yeah, I’ve heard of that.
Fi
And they have rooms, Haslemere, Godalming, Farnham, Guildhall. So that’s all very very tasteful, rather posh at the end. So I quite like it and they have very nice biscuits. So I see clients there. So I rent a block for hours. So I will see 4 clients back to back in that block.
Josephine
That must be quite tiring.
Fi
It is. But do you know what? We have to do it while we were training when I had a lot less skills than I have now.
Josephine
It sounds like you can handle it and you’re used to it and you just just get on with it, really.
Fi
Yeah. Where I rent at the Hazelway, at the community centre, I rent the day or an afternoon, And I’ll put more breaks into that. Because I can. Because, you know, I’m not paying by the hour as such, so it’s a lot easier.
Josephine
Do you find, this is just curiosity really, but do you find different people are attracted to the different places where you work? Like, when you work in a community centre, does that attract a different type of clients when you work?
Fi
Do you know what? It doesn’t. I thought it would. And I do say to people who come to the community centre because sometimes it can be a bit noisy. A lovely lady does the flamenco class next door. There’s a lot of stomping. And I do say to them, I said, I’ve got much posher room. it’s up the road if you want to come on a Tuesday. And they normally just go, no this is fine. And the flamenco ladies always sound like they’re having a great time.
Josephine
Yeah. So you can hear the old castanets going off in the background?
Fi
And stamping and everything.
Josephine
Oh, wow. Amazing.
Fi
I thought it would attract different clients, but it doesn’t seem to have done.
Josephine
Yeah. And I think it’s really interesting, isn’t it? Because people are coming to see you for you and I think we can worry so much about, you know, what does our room look like? Is it quiet? Does it look as though it’s run down or whatever? But people actually, put it this way, they found out enough about you that they think this is the woman for me and I want to see her.
Fi
If you have that therapeutic relationship and that sense of safety It’s nice to have a nice posh room but it’s not essential.
Josephine
And I think there’s something around you’re actually almost establishing that relationship with them in advance of the first session with them because people are getting to know you, because you’re putting your authentic self out there. People actually get to know the real Fi.
And I think that goes a long way to helping people feel comfortable with you.
Fi
I hope so. And I also do a free 20 minute assessment call. And I know some people don’t like doing free anything and they don’t like it but it works for me because it gives us a chance to sound each other out.
It allows them to see who I am and whether they’ll feel comfortable with me. And it gives me a chance to work out if I can be of help.
Josephine
So is there anything you found difficult about being in private practice?
Fi
Balancing my workload. Because when I first started out, I meant to say I did some EAP work as well because, you know, the pay is dreadful, but at least it’s some pay.
Josephine
Yeah. That’s it.
Fi
I would do that on an afternoon online. And at that point, it becomes very easy to overbook yourself and have too many clients. And that’s when the eye starts going. And I realise that 23, 25 clients a week doesn’t work for me. The other thing I find difficult is it can be difficult, it can be all consuming, especially in that 1st year. It was all I thought about. It was all I talked about, you know, in terms of what I was gonna do next and this course and that one. And it can be quite difficult to keep a balance. I’m very lucky I ride my friend’s horse.
Josephine
Yeah. I was gonna say, what do you do?
Fi
Yeah. I ride an opinionated, flouncy Spanish horse called Chiquita. And she keeps me. She is the definition of being mindful.
Josephine
Because you have to be
Fi
Because I have to be present. Otherwise, she shoots off around the common and I’d still be doing laps around the Thursley Common now.
So me and my friend Sam, who owns her, she’s very supportive of what I do, and she knew me through my training. But we just go out and we talk about the horses and we talk about life in general and lots of other stuff.
So it’s nothing to do with work.
Josephine
And you have to talk about how you have to muck around as well, don’t you?
Fi
Yeah. Because everybody loves shovelling horse poo in the pouring rain. Because this winter has been brutal.
Josephine
Yeah. I bet. But there must’ve been something very grounding about that, I should think.
Fi
Well, technically, yes. Depends how cold it is, Jo.
Josephine
So do you find sort of, this is more of a sort of personal question, really, but do you find that you carry some of that stuff that your clients tell you? Because all I was thinking was I used to sort of dance a lot to try and get it out of my systems. I was sort of wondering if you’re sort of basically shovelling shit, you know, if that sort of helps with that sort of process.
Fi
It does. Yes. I do carry it. I try not to, but you can’t not. You can’t hear some of the things that we hear as therapists and not be impacted by it. In fact, I’d suggest if you’re not impacted by it, you might be in the wrong job because some of it’s awful. What do I do? I dance, I bounce around the lounge, I have a special shower gel that I use after work
Josephine
Really?
Fi
And it’s really strong smelling too, it’s a very orangey smell and it’s to wash work off.
Josephine
Yeah. That’s a really interesting thing to hear.
Fi
Because I was, you know, I was getting quite tense and quite anxious and I realised it’s because I’d had a really heavy couple of weeks with work and I needed to symbolically wash it all away. And I paint as well. I paint very bad watercolours.
Josephine
No. Not very bad, actually. I’ve got one on my wall.
Fi
Oh. Some of them are okay.
Some of them look like my grandson did them. So that’s really, you know, that’s really helpful because, again, it concentrates.
Josephine
Yeah. Like, this constant chatter Yeah.
Fi
Yeah. It’s just stuff all the time. So painting, writing, anything that keeps me focused. Shuts the noise down.
Josephine
So with the trauma, it’s quite an umbrella term, isn’t it? I’m just going back to thinking about your directory and how you’ve managed to communicate to people that that’s sort of what you work with. Do you sort of talk about abuse or what sort of things do you say?
Fi
I’m a bit careful about it because I know that for me, I knew I’d had an abusive childhood and that it wasn’t good. I had blocked the fact that I’ve been sexually abused and that only came to light for me many years later.
Josephine
Right.
Fi
In my directory, I just say, did you have a difficult childhood? Is the impact of that still affecting you now? Would you like to talk about that?
Josephine
Do you find that you appeal to mainly women or do you get a whole range of different clients?
Fi
I do have mainly female clients. I do have some male clients. And some non binary ones. Yeah.
But it’s mainly women. We have a long history of patriarchy and women are wanting to end up coming to me.
Josephine
So do you find that you’re working with people for quite a long time because of the sort of nature of the work?
Fi
Yes. I do. Quite often, 2, 3 years. Yeah. And, yeah, some of my clients might be here for even longer, and I can have as long as they need me today.
Some people come. We do some, you know, if it’s a one off trauma, if it’s something like a car crash or an assault, whatever, we can do that. We can actually sort that and help them process those memories really quickly. In 6 weeks, they’re going, oh, actually, I feel great. Alright.
Give us a shout if you need me again, and off they go. And that’s fantastic, but very different to that acute trauma is very different to sort of complex trauma.
Josephine
Yeah. It’s the right trauma. So have you got any advice to anybody who’s starting out, do you think?
Fi
Believe in yourself. You can do more than you can possibly imagine. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other. Do all the things. Get your list. Work through the list.
It will work. I am in an area, you know, we’re just south of Guildford. This place is awash with therapists. If you put my postcode into counselling directory, you come up with something like 130 therapists.
Josephine
Not that you’ve counted them.
Fi
All of them. All of them. You can do it. You can do it.
I think it would be very difficult to stop a job and then start private practice and make a living straight away. If you’re the sole earner, that would be hard. But if you’ve got a bit of wriggle room or you can work and do private practice for a bit, it is completely doable.
Josephine
And I think also with your, sort of, type of client as well, if you’re working with people for as long as 2 or 3 years, you get sort of like a foundation, don’t you? And then you’re just adding people on top. Yeah. And then that can help to build you up. Whereas if you’re doing very short term work, obviously, you have to keep recruiting, keep recruiting, keep recruiting.
Fi
Even with long term work, I went in 2 days from being completely full to only a third full.
Josephine
Wow.
Fi
I was like, what the hell just happened there? Oh my goodness.
Josephine
So tell us more about that and how you felt.
Fi
I was just like, I’m gonna have to go work in Tesco’s. People suddenly said, you know what? I can’t afford this anymore or I’m going to go to fortnightly or I feel better, which is always great. You know? I think I’m done. And that all happened over a space of about 3 days, and I went from completely full to going, oh, bugger.
Josephine
So sort of almost from sort of, like, 20 to around 6 or 8, something like that.
Fi
Yeah. And then it’s trusting the process. It’s trusting the counselling gods to send you your next lot of clients.
Josephine
Did you do anything extra to attract people?
Fi
Panicked. I panicked.
Josephine
That’s an honest answer.
Fi
Yeah. I did actually. That’s when I did a video recording to put on my profile directory, which was very effective, and I got lots and lots of inquiries. I still can’t listen to it, though. I don’t like it.
Josephine
If you wanna watch it, watch Fi’s thing.
Fi
Yeah. You lot go and watch it. Just don’t make me look at it again.
Josephine
But that actually worked that you found that people responded to that.
Fi
Yeah. It does. And I find that if I change the wording on my directories periodically, I see a lift in inquiries. Yeah. Because I think it just sort of, like it just tells the SEO gods that this is a current piece of.
Josephine
Yeah. This is a new bit.
Fi
Which is a real pain because I really like my directory profile at the moment. I don’t wanna change it, but I’m gonna have to go in and do something to it.
Josephine
Yeah. Go go and add another of your qualifications.
Fi
Maybe.
Josephine
And I just think it’s really interesting just going back circling back to what you said about despite the fact there’s a 130 other therapists in your area, you can still make it work. Because I think often people think, oh, you know, why would anybody want to come and see little old me?
Fi
I think yeah. That’s exactly how I felt when I first started. And what’s changed now is there’s 130 therapists in my area and none of them are me. None of them have my unique approach.
And it’s only unique because we’re all unique. You know? And I’m not everyone’s cup of tea, and that’s alright. There’s, like, I refer to colleagues and friends that are local if somebody looks like they want something different.
Josephine
I was wondering if you could tell me a bit about setting up your centre for people who can’t afford to come for private practice therapy.
Fi
That was remarkably easy to do, actually. The lady who ran the community centre at the time managed to get us some funding from our local Haslemere Rotary Club and they’ve been really supportive.
They were a little concerned to start with that I was such a new therapist, but I met with them and we had a chat and I managed not to swear or spill dinner down my front so that was good, and they’ve continued to support us.
So what we do is we have a room within the community centre, and we went to the doctors. We went to the social prescribers, and we said, right, we’ve got this and there’s myself.
There’s my friend who was doing the training before me. I called him and made him come and help us as well, and another lady who specialises in children and young people. She’s brilliant. And we wanted to set up a charity that had qualified counsellors in it because most of the charities have people on placement who aren’t fully trained yet, and we and we have to do placements.
We know that. But we wanted to offer qualified counsellors and that we have a waiting list. We’re hugely over subscribed and we periodically have to change and have to close the waiting list.
Josephine
Because you’ve got so many people on the waiting list.
Fi
I don’t want people sitting on a waiting list for a year. It’s not fair.
Josephine
Yeah. So it’s better to say to them sorry we’ve just got no availability at the moment. Let them go somewhere. Let’s try to see if they can find somewhere else.
Fi
So we do that and all four of us work. We do 4 hours a week for Hazel Way. We get paid 30 quid.
Josephine
Oh, so do you actually get paid?
Fi
We do get paid. We don’t get paid a lot, but we do get paid, and the clients make a donation of what they can afford. And clients make a donation of what they can afford. And some people donate 40 quid, some people donate 1.
Josephine
So it’s not dependent on their income?
Fi
No.
Josephine
They can just come along. They’re not asked to. Is it only for people who are up to a certain level of income or is it just.
Fi
No. It’s for anybody. It’s for anyone. And we just say to them, you know, if you’re in work, we would suggest a donation of £30, but if you can’t afford that, we can discuss it, and people pay what they can afford.
Josephine
And how does it work in terms of sort of, like, assessment and stuff like that? Would you see them? Did you just see their name come to the top of the list and then you just go through normal assessments or do sessions with them before you put them on the list?
Fi
What we do is we assess them before we put them on the list. So if we get them come in, Paula and I will split that between us. One of us will call them or do a Zoom call, do an assessment, and if we can be of use, then they go on to our waiting list.
If we can’t, we then signpost them on. Because there are some things that we’re not, they’re either outside of our competencies as therapists or they’re just not suitable for therapy. So we then refer back to GPs.
Josephine
Yeah. So that’s sort of quite good in terms of your knowledge about what’s going on in the local area as well, I should think.
Fi
Yeah.
Josephine
It’s Really useful.
Fi
We get to know a lot of people. Yeah. And the strangest thing is I went to the local food festival which was at the end of my road on the green, and somebody went, oh, I know you. You’re on Facebook, aren’t you? You do that counselling lark! And I just froze and went yeah. It was so strange.
Josephine
Yeah. I mean, you know, you haven’t mentioned the Facebook page very much, but, you know, people really like your Facebook page as well, don’t they?
Fi
I have a surprising amount of followers on there, which takes me by surprise all the time.
Josephine
I think it’s because you’re really real. You’re you.
Fi
Yeah. I think so. I post things that make me go, oh, and that then generates through. And I do it on Facebook because I understand Facebook. I get it. I do a little bit on Instagram, but I don’t really get it, and it’s not as good as a lot of other people.
Josephine
And sometimes it just sort of can help signpost people towards you if they’re looking. But I think, you know, there’s a lot of people who are still on Facebook. Despite what everybody says about Facebook. You can make Facebook pages work, I think.
Fi
I live in a small town. The entire town runs on Facebook. You know, our local cafe, near the eaves where I was this morning, that was shut for the day. Everybody knew because he put a post up on Facebook. It doesn’t happen if it’s not on the Hazelmere community board, it doesn’t happen.
Josephine
So you’re probably known as the Hazelmere counsellor or one of them?
Fi
One of the Hazelmere councillor people. Yeah. And I got my picture in the local rag because I went and accepted a check from the rotary.
That was so odd. Really was. All of a sudden, I’m sat in the grounds of some wonderful park. They’ve got a hot air balloon and I’m in my best clothes collecting a check. Trying not to try not to spill my dinner down my front.
Josephine
Wow. That’s fantastic though. But, hopefully, what you’ve done is enough, really, from what you’re telling me.
Fi
It seems to be working, you know. I’ve got a full practice and full for me is between 16 and 20. I could have more. I’m turning online stuff away because I get too tired. I’m a bit rubbish after 5 in the evening, to be honest, and I wanna sit on the sofa with a glass of wine.
Josephine
Yeah. So you tend to see people during the day.
Fi
It’s working. So I don’t know why it’s working other than it is so I’m not gonna mess with it.
Josephine
Carry on. And then more videos if you suddenly go down to only a third.
Fi
Yeah I’m saying all this now, everyone could decide to leave by next week. You know, sometimes you get that sense that your client’s almost done. And then all of it suddenly, 3 or 4 of them will turn around and go, yeah, I think I’m done.
Josephine
Your sort of initial reaction is just to go, ahhhhh, but then after a while, you sort of settle down again, don’t you, and then see what you can do to try and to get more clients in. Because I think that’s the second time you came back to me, actually, you had a bit of a gap, didn’t you? And you said that I just need to do a bit more.
Fi
That’s when we had the proper one to 1, wasn’t it?
Josephine
Yeah.
Fi
And that was really, really helpful. And what it was actually was incredibly encouraging because she said, actually, for you, you’re doing all the right things. So I thought maybe there was something I was missing. Yeah. Everyone else had some secret everyone else knew about that I didn’t.
And you were so encouraging and so affirming and I felt like you believed in me. I do. Yeah. And I came out of there thinking, oh, Jo believes in me. Oh, I can yeah. I can do this. This is doable. And you did tell me to change the pictures on my website, and I’m looking at it thinking I still haven’t changed them.
Josephine
Well, maybe I got that bit wrong then.
Fi
I don’t have many photos of me. That’s for sure.
Josephine
So has, sort of, running the private practice and having, you know, 15 to 20 clients a week sort of made a difference to your life, do you think?
Fi
Certainly. In terms of financial security, it feels a lot better than earning £10 an hour. I mean, we don’t have to worry about the bills as much as we were because the kids have left home now, which makes life a lot cheaper.
It was things like, I’ve always had knackered cars. I’ve bought cars for under a grand, driven them into the ground until they died.
Josephine
Literally.
Fi
And then got to cover. Literally died. And the last one literally, completely died.
And I went to a car showroom and got a secondhand nice Mazda with a warranty.
Josephine
Fantastic.
Fi
And everything. And believe me, having a warranty, big deal, huge deal, and aftercare service, and all the posh things that other people do and I could afford to go and do and that was with money that I got.
Josephine
Wow. That’s amazing.
Fi
And I’m and I’m going away. I’m having an adventure.
Josephine
Go on. Tell us about that.
Fi
In May. I’m not particularly well travelled. When I’ve gone abroad, I’ve gone with my husband or my kids just to Europe. My son lives in Italy, so I go there a lot. And I’m not. I’ve met strange people online in an art group who are absolutely lovely and have been here to visit me. So I’m going to go and see Diane and Laura in Minneapolis next month.
I’m gonna have to get on a plane on my own, which is the bit that scares me because I’m convinced I won’t find it.
Josephine
They do try and make it easy, I think.
Fi
I hope so. Everyone else will be having their pre-flight drinkies. I’ll be sat there in front of the screen, staring at it, waiting for my flight to come up.
So I’m yeah. So in May, and that’s entirely paid for out of my earnings.
Josephine
Wow. Amazing.
Fi
And it’s damn expensive to fly to the states.
Josephine
Yeah. I don’t even know where Minneapolis is in the states.
Fi
It’s north-ish.
Josephine
Right.
Fi
And then we’re gonna go from her house up to Lake Superior where we’ve rented a cabin.
Josephine
Oh, wow.
Fi
And they called it a small cabin.
Josephine
Oh, well, America.
Fi
Yeah. The living room’s the same size as the downstairs of my house.
Josephine
Yeah. It’s gonna be fantastic.
Fi
It’s gonna be brilliant. So, yeah, that’s my big adventure with my American friends.
Josephine
Fantastic. I’m so pleased. Really pleased to hear. And, you know, why not? That’s what I think. It’s really good. You know, you are earning the money. You are working hard, actually. It isn’t easy work.
Fi
I am working hard. And my kids have had adventures. My kids have been travelling. They’ve done adventurous things. You know, one climbs mountains, the other lives abroad. It’s time for mum to have an adventure.
Josephine
Yeah. Well, I hope you have a lovely time.
Fi
Also, keep an eye on Facebook. I will be posting so many photos.
Josephine
Oh, I’m gonna.
Fi
My only concern is getting eaten by a bear because we’re going hiking.
Josephine
Oh, wow. They have bears.
Fi
Yeah. They do.
Josephine
Well, hopefully, you’ll make it back safe and set. Oh, brilliant. Well, thank you so much for coming along, Fi. I really appreciate it, and I’m sure people who are listening really appreciate it too.
Fi
Thank you for having me. I was absolutely thrilled to be asked.
Josephine
Oh, that’s brilliant. Thank you. So if people wanna find you on your website, what’s your web address?
Fi
My web address is fionahewkincounselling.com
Josephine
Brilliant. Nice and easy to find.
Josephine
And I’m on Facebook. Same thing. Same thing on Instagram, but with underscores.
Josephine
So we can find you quite easily. Brilliant. Oh, well, thank you so much for coming along and for sharing all your knowledge with everybody.
Josephine
My pleasure.
Fi
Thank you.
Outro
Thanks for listening. Do come and join my Facebook community, Good Enough Counsellors.
And for more information about how I can help you develop your private practice, please visit my website, josephinehughes dotcom. If you found this episode helpful, I’d love it if you could share it with a fellow therapist or leave a review on your podcast app. And in closing, I’d love to remind you that every single step you make gets you closer to your dream. I really believe you can do it.